North East Post Adoption Service - Adoption Narratives - Jean

 

Angie:   Do ye remember the MFI thing?

Rod:     Oh yeah.  When she first started buying furniture.  When we first moved to Stamfordham, and had decent bits of furniture she’d always go to MI5 for her furniture

Angie:   She used to ring me up, ‘can Rod pick me something up from MI5?  ‘Of course he can Grace, I’ll tell him as soon as he comes in’.

Jean:     Me mam would have come out with something like that.  Mum always used to say, ere, ‘ye know it’s all these things they’re sending up in the air, sputniks’ Ye know sputniks and that.  Sputnicks are sending off, but never mind

 

Rod:     I think me mam was practicing her spoonerisms, I think me mam just practiced her

Jean:     Ee yeah funny with thing that they used to

Rod:     I think once ye got over the hardship part of it with her, erm, we could really appreciate her, I think that was importance. The latter years were really good with her, haven’t got any problems there.

Angie:   I know she was well aware that she hadn’t been the best possible mother because she said to me that she was glad that you’d all turned out so well, given the way she had lived when they were younger.  Not that she regretted it, she just regretted any possible effect it might have had on the kids.

Rod:     Well kids remember things from such an early age.  That’s what’s damaging

Jean:     I can remember like where we used to live in er Jarrow, in Hope Street er, still remember the way the sitting room was, ye know, the furnishing and everything.  The horses used to, cause I had a field across the road, the horses used to pop their head up the stairs erm, things like ye know, I was like three.  I would say that I was three then cause from there up to, up to Mitford Terrace where like me father lives now, er, and coming to this house with a garden.  I can remember that.  I can remember the grass being really tall because before that me dad had an allotment erm, near Hope Street.  I can remember going down with Rex, the dog, to Hope Street, ye know to the allotment, in Hope Street and helping to carry leeks and things like that.

Angie:   I did that

Rod:     Yeah, basically they were the good years.  Ye remember the hard time don’t ye?  I can remember, well, I had a bad time at Borough Road, I can remember that, virtually fending for ourselves, me and our Win.  I couldn’t tell the time properly so I was getting up at seven o’clock for school and walking to school at quarter to eight in the morning and things like that.  I was doing her breakfast for her and that sort of thing ye know.  Later years

Jean:     Life goes on.  For me it’s the biggest thing that has happened.  I think I have worn Norman down.  Ye know, cause I keeps saying, ‘and do ye think they’ll be all right?  Do you think’ cause he’s a very, ye know, matter-of-fact

Rod:     Ye can only face it and have a look

Angie:   You don’t have to be nervous cause I’m nervous for you.  I want it to be OK for you

Rod:     I’ve had so many job interviews in my life it doesn’t makes no difference

Jean:     perhaps like professional side myself. I don’t know what I’ll be like

Rod:     Used to do it for a hobby going for job interviews didn’t I?

Angie:   I didn’t realise you could apply to be a brother or sister – it’s a lovely idea isn’t it?

Jean:     But er, I feel very relaxed, I’ve got to admit I really feel relaxed because, even had to go down stairs for a cigarette (I’m a smoker) honest to God I have smoked, ye know like er and I just didn’t know because usually I’m very emotional aren’t I?  I mean, I’ve cried sometimes after when I’ve come off the phone but I do, I feel relaxed

Angie:   I think when you start out with something like this you don’t have any great expectations,

Jean:     No, no

Angie:            and every time you make a bit of progress it must become more real.  Obviously you get more emotionally involved the more you find out

Jean:     My object when I first started was just for to see ye know, if there was anybody and like I kept saying, the biggest thing was, cause I did go for counselling because like an adoptee like, there is a proper way to go about it erm and my biggest thing was just, if there was I just wanted to know if they were alright

Andrea:  Yes, that’s what you kept saying

Jean:     That’s me, that’s been the main thing

Rod:     In our own way, basically we’ve all come out OK.  I mean our Colin chose    the path he’s got and he realises it.  He’s probably the worse scenario

Angie:   He’s happy enough

Rod:     There’s not crooks as such, nobody’s gone to prison or anything.  So basically we’ve led a pretty straight life that way, they may not have done as well as they would have wished for each other but we are OK.  Our Winnie’s got a very tight family erm.  Their side is very, there’s loads of them, from her first husband Mel, who she’s still very friendly with the Jewels and they are a vast family, very, very close they were. Winnie’s got girls and that but, yeah you’ll see Win.  I’ll organise a meeting.

Angie:   You’ve not told her anything about Win.  She’s got the two daughters, and a son, a couple of sons-in-law, go on tell her

Rod:     Right.  Well, didn’t want to swamp you tonight.  What I wanted was for you to get the main things you wanted out of the way.  That’s why I didn’t bring reams of  photographs down or anything like that.  Obviously the main thing was ye mum

Jean:     ah yeah.  I mean like I say I want, I want to pay my last respects to Grace, I really do.

Rod:     So, when you go home and digress tonight with Norman, give us a ring some time, any evening at home and, er let us know when it’s convenient to you and we’ll organise something and we’ll go to Preston cemetery and we’ll sort through the book of remembrance.  Actually that’ll be something for me as well so

Jean:     It would be lovely and I mean, that was another thing, I had to stand back a bit didn’t I? because I didn’t expect thing for to come and like they said you had phoned I mean Andrea got straight, ye know, straight away and yer telephone number, I thought, it was just when we were coming out

Rod:     It just went bang from there didn’t it?

Jean:     It did it was really

Rod:     Cause the two letters were feelers to George Cummings and ….. Rawlings and I got them both off them and I rang straight away

Jean:     and that was like wooff

Rod:     Yeah well such a direct contact like, ah yeah we know, we knew where they were, no ‘I am’ and that was it

Jean:     Erm and I thought, well, out of all of it I thought, excuse me I have to give Andrea like our phone number, and I thought, ‘flipping heck’ it seemed like one sided here

Rod:     I was glad that I remembered so much about your dad, Billy, because I rattled it off to Andrea

Andrea:  I was very impressed

Rod:     I do remember him very well.  He was a nice guy to us.  He was a kind man.  I mean, my mum herself said that, he was a very, very kind man but it’s not what she wanted.  So that was the circumstances

[everyone talking at the same time]

Jean:     Like people have got to be their own decision for their own

Rod:     I suspect that Billy would have kept you himself, so I suspect that he maybe  got back to his wife. 

Jean:     Well, I believed that through records what I’ve got, that’s what I’ve thought I think, on what I’ve got to read.   I think he did get back with his wife because, the way, in South Shields there were still register but after 1954 they’re not, they’re not.  So I don’t know why but I had a feeling they moved but there again, ye know,

Rod:     I honestly believe he would have kept you if things hadn’t have been against him for some reason or other.  Maybe common sense, how’s it going to work, and look after a daughter and that sort of thing

Jean:     but I know Grace

Andrea: It wouldn’t have been allowed would it?

Angie:   Not in those days

Rod:     Probably not, no.  Straight away the agencies would have come in and said, you’ve got to be adopted, you’ve got to be looked after by two parents

Andrea: Ones, yeah, wouldn’t have been allowed

Rod:     It was the old fashioned thing wasn’t it, the man works and the woman looks after the family.

Jean:     Even in that, its, its changed so much

Rod:     have to open the door environment

Jean:     so yes it would have been a real, a real

Rod:     It must have been very traumatic for them

Jean:     Of course, of course.  Me mam told us this, she heard Grace’s voice but she didn’t see her erm in South Shields police station-cum-court ye know the juvenile courts, they didn’t have courts which was Kevil Street, in South Shields.  She knew she was a younger person than what she was herself and erm yer know it was like wood panelling and glass, like the frosted glass

Rod:     The frosted glass, you just seen the form

Jean:     So she did, she did she said she heard like a young woman’s voice and like ye know they were talking to her and that and saying, ‘it was the only thing that could be done’ and that.  So my mam told me that.  Er so, like I say, once records started coming through from Durham and I thought this woman hasn’t had any, er, any other option and I greatly respect.  I respected that because I respected Grace for that because of the life for what I’ve had, what I had with Lilian

Rod:     At no time have I ever doubted that mum loved us, it was never that.  There was times I wished me mum was not me mum but that was for my own selfish reasons but she never, she always loved us.  There was never a problem

Jean:     No, erm, I find it just like I say it was over three year and then all of a sudden

Rod:     That’s a long time to be researching

Jean:     Well I did go through, because we thought

Rod:     …… because you had such close contact, that’s what I’m getting at with Shakespeare address and then you sent out the letters to Roland

Angie:   people move don’t they?

Andrea: It took us a few months, from the beginning of the year

Jean:     I started off with erm, over at erm, like Boldon Social Services going through there and it was just come to a, a dead end didn’t it?  So that like anywhere else erm, they haven’t the staff for er and I found out about NEPAS and I got in contact with Steve, and I mean, ye know but in the mean time I was keep going down the library and I was keep looking for things, and ye know the old records, because, telling Andrea got down very old ledgers

Angie:   I’d actually be frightened to look for my family

Jean:     Ye know and ye find different things, jotting them down

Angie:   probably picked the wrong

Jean:     but then I met Steve and like then, ye know, Andrea erm, we met, come over to our house and it’s been brilliant ye know, the support I’ve had, I couldn’t had

Angie:   I think you need that in case things maybes go badly or disappointingly

Jean:     Yes that’s it because like that’s what I had said, I wasn’t expecting

Rod:     Well ye don’t expect do ye?

Angie:   It was possibly easier because Rod knew about your existence

Jean:     Which er

Angie:   It didn’t come as a particular shock to Rod because he knew that you were around somewhere

Jean     Well it’s funny because I kept saying, ‘if anybody did have any memory it would be Rod’ or Rodney as I was calling you then, it would be Rodney for like ye know the age, like seven years old, I think things can have a comprehension of things

Rod:     Kids take it in very early

Jean:     So I kept saying, if anybody has got any memory, any link or anything it would be, and it’s so funny it has turned out it has been

Rod:     nobody else knows in our family.  I don’t know about our Brenda, don’t know how much her mums told her, I have no reason to believe that she has.  My Aunty Alice would have known but whether me Aunty Alice has told Brenda I don’t know.  Erm, I don’t even know whether to approach Brenda.  I’ll go and get photographs of her and that sort of thing.  Our Win certainly doesn’t know.  Er but I think now that we are on this level I’ll have a word with our Win and I don’t think there are any problems there whatsoever.

Jean:     but I mean even if there was or even if there was or even if  I’d appreciate that.  Ye know, I mean, you’ve got to understand people do have different feelings.  Ye said Win’s very like, Win’s emotional and that.

Rod:     Very

Jean:     We’d make a good pair sitting watching

Rod:     As I was telling Andrea, Win had one of her daughters adopted when she had problems and her daughter got in touch with her and Win was over the moon, so

Jean:     So, but, I mean I appreciate everything ye know, but I don’t, must get this across again because I worry about it

Rod:     Ohhh, it won’t cause any problems cause I’ll approach the family, I’ll tell our George out of courtesy now cause don’t want anyone else to tell him.  I’ll go and tell our George.  Our Colin I’m not too sure about, he probably couldn’t give a damn anyway.  Erm and that covers the three main members that’s George, Win and myself.

Jean:     Eee, I’m looking at your eyes.  You’ve got the same eyes as me

Rod:     Bloodshot and sore!

Jean:     ……………………….

Angie:   All of the children look the same.  If you see photographs of all of the children, you Rod, his sister, his brother and even their children, they have all got the same look when they were about two or three years old, they all look the same.  You couldn’t tell which was which child from looking at the photograph.

Jean:     yeah it’s funny isn’t it.  There’s a photo in me parent’s house upstairs, when I was a baby erm, I’m in a tomato box.  Ye know the old-fashioned            tomato box, like with a rug or something over it.

Norman: Ye mother sold ye!

[everyone laughs]

Rod:        She’s got the deposit actually

Jean:     er like as I’ve grew, grew up I mean I’ve got loads of photos erm because, like erm, I was really, because me parents lost children in pregnancy, me mam like in her twenties and she had to have a hysterectomy, ye know, and a mean, they were thirty, I think me mam was thirty three when I she got me, erm and it was a big thing.

Rod:     Oh god it would be yeah

Jean:     Mam told us when they brought us home the whole street was out.  Ye know, which in them days

Rod:                  well known as well

Jean:     And me dad walked all the way from Newcastle with the pram, erm ye know and things like that.  Er me, er Nanna MacInstosh, which was me mam’s mam, erm must have whizzed round, like crocheting and knitting us things

Rod:     booties and stuff!

Jean:     Yeah

Angie:   I always think that’s the nice side about adoption that you have actually chosen to have this child.  Ye know, I mean, most people can get pregnant and have children whether or not they want them.  I think it’s really nice when somebody actually chooses to have a child.  Their excitement when they are accepted must be wonderful.

Jean:     In them days it was a very strict on hair colouring, on eyes, the skin.  I mean, like me mam, her hair colouring was quite like darker than mine but when she was younger she was fair.  Me dad, some of his features er

Norman: He’s grey

Jean:     Yeah, he’s grey now, ….  the nose and that ye know, because you do get people’s characteristics ye know as ye

Rod:     Ye miss a generation

Angie:   They are trying to make sure the adoptive parents looked as much like the child as possible

Rod:     because then it could have been a stigma as school or whatever and it could have really hurt you during life.

Jean:     Well, there was, at some time in me life but, I knew, because I had been told from an early age ye know.  I knew so.  But it never ever bothered us because I think because I known.  Now a friend of mine only found out when she was fifteen, going away on a school holiday.  Err cutting a long story short, yes she researched and the family originally come from Ireland, went over to          come back never speak about it again, wouldn’t talk about it, ye know so

Rod:     Well Catholic

Jean:     When she was, ye know eighteen she was determined for to

Rod:     You’re going to want to totally when it’s like that

Jean:     Held it against her mam from being being fifteen to eighteen, went and done this regretted it I think even to this day regrets ye know but that was

Rod:     but obviously had this in your mind when you started

Jean:     Ooh yes because I think you’ve got to, you’ve got to think of the positive yes, but you’ve also got to think

Rod:     I think your positive side is that if you make these contacts and the person comes back to you then they half want to meet you anyway.  So you are half way there and from there you have got to work between you.

Jean:     Well like when Andrea told me, it was like, ee really?  Ye know, I mean it was er

Rod:     It was so much to come in one go wasn’t it?   Like to be faced with that.  Like, ‘what do you mean a half brother??’  Like that straightaway, can I have a go  between please

Andrea: Because you only knew about Rod and Win didn’t you?

Jean:     Yes, that’s and like on Billy’s side, like I say, the way it stated in the records a girl and boy, no names

Rod:     Tom.  I knew Tom.  I remember Tom

Jean:     Ye know

Rod:     Tom was quite a bit older than me.  So obviously when ……what was the girls name?  What did you say?

Jean:     ermmm

Rod:     Dorothy or, something with Billy  - Catherine!

Andrea: Catherine was the wife

Jean:     Catherine was the wife, er

Rod:     Don’t know what the daughter’s name was

Jean:     I know.  I’ve got the file at home.  I meant to pick it all up

Rod:     She must have been quite a lot older than me so would have had very little to do with each other

Jean:     She was the oldest of the two.  I think she was about sixteen

Rod:     Tommy was quite a bit older.  Tommy was about eight years older than me.  He’d have been about fourteen, fifteen when I was there

Jean:     Yeah

Rod:     But through Tommy, George, George Orson has the Orson’s pet shop in South Shields?  He was Tommy’s best friend.  George Orson.  I got to know him quite well through Tommy when I was a kid and when I went back to South Shields market, when I live with me Gran, buying mice and pigeons and that we got talking and then – small world.

Andrea: Yes.  Girl sixteen, boy thirteen.

Jean:     Yeah she was about sixteen

Rod:     Amazing

Angie:   So I mean in the 50’s the girl was very possibly working away from home

Jean:     yeah possibly

Angie:   not service as such but ye know something like that

Jean:     It’s funny when I found out, but when it come through like tiny because I don’t even that I had a vision because like my birth certificate, which is an adoptees birth certificate, erm, even that I’ve, it was never, ever said to us, where I was actually born or anything right

Rod:     aarh right

Jean:     Erm but I believed I come from, not round any of the North East.  I don’t know why

Rod:     Scotland??   Have ye got the right baby!  We’re flogging a dead-horse here!!

Jean:     ye know how ye get like a feeling and that

Angie:   Sometimes people have an impression that if you are adopted you are sent to the opposite end of the country

Jean:     and when I found out, like ye know,well as it’s got there, Tyne Lane and Shakespeare Street, South Shields, Tyne Lane, I found me self when I was in South Shields I was looking at people

Angie:   Do they look like me?  Could that be

Rod:     ‘excuse me are you my dad?’!!  I could appreciate that, I could imagine that

Jean:     Like if you were sitting somewhere and